Ahram Online: Following the Israeli strike against a school shelter in central Gaza that killed over 100 Palestinians, you described Gaza as the largest concentration camp of the 21st century. What is your assessment of the situation nearly 11 months into this relentless war?
Francesca Albanese: Israel is clearly committing genocide against the Palestinians in one neighbourhood at the time, one hospital at the time, one school at the time, one refugee camp at the time, and one 'safe zone' at the time. It is carrying out such strikes against Palestinians using American and European weapons, amid the indifference of all civilized nations.
The two words that come to mind are "catastrophe" and "monstrous."
This is a "catastrophe" that I assessed from the very beginning. It is a real disaster.
It is also "monstrous" to inflict on the people of Gaza and the Palestinians in general what is happening right now. I observe appalling racism; it is the same matrix of anti-Semitism, anti-Arabism, and anti-Islamism.
However, it has taken on a particularly alarming dimension for the Palestinians, as they represent a threat to political Zionism, which aims to maintain a Jewish majority throughout historic Palestine, not just in Israel. Palestinians, with their identity and political message, do not want to be subjected and therefore represent a threat to Zionism.
The problem is that Israel struggles to perceive itself as anything other than a Zionist state based on Jewish supremacy. This is unacceptable, especially at a time when we are talking about banning and prohibiting racism.
In my view, there is no doubt that genocide is underway, and it could have been avoided as early as January. This is the observation that deeply marked me during my visit to Jordan and Egypt.
The documented massacres and testimonies of doctors and survivors I met testify to the military operations conducted by Israel after 26 January 26, despite the International Court of Justice's decision in favour of measures that could have changed the course of events in Gaza, but which were not implemented.
AO: In your report "Anatomy of a Genocide," you already concluded that Israel's actions meet the threshold of genocide. Can you elaborate on the specific evidence that led to this conclusion?
FA: Beyond acts of violence and massacres, which are facts, with inflicted physical and mental injuries that we have documented, we also see the creation of living conditions leading to destruction, famine, the elimination of livelihoods, the destruction of arable land, and the collapse of fishing industries, with no aid arriving.
What characterizes the crime of genocide is the intent — the intent to destroy a people, a protected group as such. It is not merely about committing these crimes but about destroying people through these crimes.
This intent is the most fundamental element of genocide. Normally, this is the hardest to establish due to the difficulty of acquiring evidence.
However, in this case, it is not difficult at all because Israeli politicians continue to state their desire for the depopulation of Gaza and to kill all members of Hamas, referring to Hamas as a political entity rather than just combatants.
The fluidity of this concept is crucial to understanding genocidal logic. Israel acts according to the idea that anyone not visibly against Hamas is therefore with Hamas, including doctors, engineers, public services, police, and the entire population, not just combatants.
This is an attack driven by genocidal logic. It is exterminatory, annihilatory logic, evident in the speeches of Israeli politicians and soldiers.
They say everything must be "Amalek" (a term from the Old Testament referring to an enemy of the Jewish people), which reflects genocidal logic. Amalek represents the logic of destroying everything, killing everyone, adults and children alike. How else do you explain at least 15,000 children were killed in 10 months? This number is likely an underestimate because hospitals can no longer effectively catalogue deaths.
AO: So the genocide is a process, not an act?
FA: Absolutely. Genocide does not occur overnight; it is a complex process. For example, consider the war crimes at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Was it genocide? I do not think so, as there was no deliberate intention to destroy the Japanese people but rather to strike Japan as a national entity. It was a single act within the context of war, not a long-term trajectory.
In contrast, the logic underpinning the violent attack on Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank is a systematic dehumanization of these populations, rooted in Israeli education and widespread in some segments of society. Otherwise, how do you explain that 80 percent of Israeli society continues to call for violence against Gaza?
This dehumanization feeds a perception of Palestinians as sworn enemies of the Israeli or Jewish people. For them, Palestinians are anti-Semitic and savage. They are not seen as individuals with dreams, lives, or talents.
AO: Is dehumanization what supports this extermination process, in your view?
FA: Yes, but there is also a colonial dimension to consider. Assume that both the Jewish and Palestinian peoples have the same right to this land. However, Palestinians are the ones who live there, while many settlers moving to the West Bank today come from elsewhere.
They come to drive Palestinians out, following a colonial logic of taking land and resources. Thus, there is dehumanization and colonial logic, which Israel continues to impose through its 57-year military occupation, depriving Palestinians of all rights, land, and resources, humiliating and imprisoning them. This is a reality, a system of apartheid, but reinforced.
AO: Does this colonial logic constitute legal evidence?
FA: Colonial logic is exterminatory in itself. The history of settler colonialism is marked by the subjugation of indigenous peoples and their expulsion from their lands for the benefit of settlers.
This is inherent to settler colonialism: taking land, relocating an external population, and expelling the indigenous people. This logic becomes systematic over time. We have seen it in the United States, Canada, and Australia. Can we say that native peoples were not exterminated? As a people, they were or nearly were exterminated and reduced to minorities both psychologically and materially deprived.
AO: Is there a systematic nature, even before the war in Gaza, as it occurs in the West Bank?
FA: The situation in the West Bank and Jerusalem is not better than in Gaza. It might be somewhat different because there is no active genocide occurring, but there is extreme violence against the Palestinians. And there is no recourse to any form of protection.
In genocide literature, there is often mention of the progression towards physical violence and killing, a process that indeed unfolds progressively.
This progression is a tool of colonialism, an ideology unfortunately practised in many historical contexts.
Certainly, there was already segregation in Gaza, characterized by movement restrictions and extreme poverty in many areas. There are also — though I do not personally support this view — those who have spoken of "progressive genocide," like former ICC prosecutor Luis Moreno Ocampo, who highlighted that the blockade could lead to the destruction of the Palestinian people.
In other words, it is a gradual process, but clearly there has been an acceleration driven by the threat posed on 7 October.
AO: However, supporters of Israel in the West say that the term genocide is too strong. How do you respond to that?
FA: There is psychological resistance to associating crimes with Israel as the perpetrator. Some argue it seems paradoxical to accuse people who have themselves been victims of genocide. It implies that someone whose family lineage has been a victim of a crime cannot commit crimes themselves, which is illogical.
What constitutes genocide is defined by law, not by personal opinions or experiences, no matter how painful. This is a mental barrier.
Moreover, in the West, we hear so easily about war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide in Ukraine. Yet, when it comes to Israel and the Palestinians, there is a bias towards Israel and racism towards Palestinians, who are not recognized for their dignity or rights.
The term is too heavy because of emotional, psychological, and political considerations, and Palestinians, from a Western perspective, are denied justice. Instead, we should start with an honest examination of what is happening on the ground.
However, I see a growing fracture among the global youth, who observe the impunity enjoyed by Israel. I think this is a moment of total rupture with the past. In every university I visit in Western Europe, whether in person or online, the younger generation is deeply interested.
Western societies have done an incredible job erecting this wall of colonial amnesia. We do not study the history of other peoples because it is the history of our sins. It is not just because we are Eurocentric, but because we do not want to teach the injustices we have inflicted on other peoples, the genocide we have committed as Western societies.
The new generation has enormous potential to change all this. It is very horizontal and encompasses the whole world because it is a world that demands justice. And it is not only justice in Palestine; it is climate justice and more. Everyone feels involved in this movement, except of course political decision-makers.
People with a consciousness of human rights and justice are fighting against injustice in this global apartheid. I first heard about global apartheid last year. And the more I advance, the more I see the signs. It is always a system based on the domination of one group over others, with the same inhumane acts.
AO: In your report and well before, you call for protective measures for Palestinians. What do you suggest?
FA: This is a very delicate moment because even invoking the application of international law without fully understanding the context and associated risks could be dangerous. For example, some experts are outraged that Egypt blocks the exodus of Palestinians.
Should we put so much effort into convincing Egypt to address the consequences of a humanitarian disaster, or, instead, should we focus on preventing the exodus in the first place, especially as Palestinians fear being forced to move and end up in refugee camps again? Yet, everyone is designing this cycle rather than seeking to stop the genocide today.
It is imperative to end Israeli military operations immediately. Israel cannot continue to act with absolute impunity. For the physical protection of Palestinians, international or regional teams could be deployed to intercede between Palestinians and Israeli settlers, but this would require a clear mandate and UN support, which is unfortunately not always feasible.
Other measures of pressure must be exerted, such as economic, political, and diplomatic sanctions. This is something that all states must do.
We have been hiding behind realpolitik for years, and where has that led us? Regional countries need to realize that this situation will not remain on the periphery and that many people in the Arab region identify with what Palestinians are experiencing.
There needs to be participation in rebuilding a just process, and I see no reason why Arab countries should not suspend diplomatic and economic relations with Israel. I fully understand the vulnerabilities, but they can counterbalance Western influence. This is the message I conveyed to the Arab League, as I believe using their weight and influence is the only way to counter this form of impunity and Israeli hegemony.
Short link: